Camera advice - are Hikvision's G2 cameras much better than their G1s?

[BenThomson]

Hi all - first post from me so be gentle.

Am considering installing my own Hikvision 4K CCTV. I know my way around networking and structured cabling, so no worries there.

My query relates to which cameras....

For the most part, the camera will cover entry points of less than 10m so am thinking fixed 2.8mm lens, 8MP - are the G2's that much better than the G1's is my first question?

The only two places this isn't the case is one that will need to cover a door around 20m away and another one around 27m. I was thinking the varifocal 8MP however as per the wife factor they need to be black and it doesn't look like they are producing the latest model in black. Will a 4 or 6mm lens be better?

Thanks,

Ben

 

[JB1970]

My first bit of advice would be to avoid the 4K cameras. Unless you have great lighting they're likely to disappoint when it matters. Although you can get "powered by Darkfighter" models that are marketed to work in low light, the reality is that to do so the camera is using a slow 1/25 second shutter speed. This will give you a great image in colour during the day or monochrome with infra red on a night of anything static, but in order to get a decent image of anyone in motion you're going to need to speed that up somewhat, which will require more light to produce an acceptable image. For every stop of shutter speed you increase, you're halving the light that gets to the sensor each time.

The G2 Acusense are far better than the G1 models - the G1 models can't have motion detection enabled as well as line crossing, intrusion detection whereas the G2 can (I believe they have an additional chip). My advice would be to wait a short while as the new 4 megapixel G2 Acusense models with built in microphone should be available later in June (DS-2CD2346G2-IU). The 4MP ColorVu (DS-2CD2347G1) models are very good as well if you have "some" light - streetlight, dawn to dusk lights around your property. They have a built in LED white light but will provide good colour images with it disabled if you have some lighting (the LED is a bit like a spotlight and not the "warm supplemental light" that Hikvision describe. I think I posted a few pics on here a couple of weeks ago if you look through my posts.

 

[BenThomson]

Thanks...all advice appreciated. Do you know if the DS-2CD2346G2-IU will be available in black?

What about the equivalent varifocal, is that due and in black?

 

[JB1970]

The models I've mentioned there are fixed lens only unfortunately - 2.8 or 4mm (some suppliers may have the Acusense in 6mm). The ColorVu are available in black. It's likely that the Acusense ones will be as well at some point.

 

[BenThomson]

Ok thanks.

I "think" a fixed 4 or 6mm lens may work in the two locations described above, am just a little confused how to work out which!

 

[JB1970]

Because of the various sensor sizes 2.8 or 4mm on one model may be different to 2.8 or 4 on another. The 2.8 is likely to be too wide unless you’re trying to capture something very close to the camera position. The smaller the focal length, the smaller and more distant items will appear in the view (think in terms of an estate agents photo of a room) I have a couple of 2.8’s but only because the mounting location is only about 3 feet from my car.

Look at the data sheet for the model you’re considering and check the horizontal field of view then mark it on google maps for an idea. The 2.8mm can be around 105 degrees - mega wide and too much distortion.

 

[macman]

Do you know if the DS-2CD2346G2-IU will be available in black?

When I couldn't get black, I used a can of spray paint to convert a white camera to black. 10 minutes to mask up the bits I didn't want paint on and 10 seconds to paint.

 

[BenThomson]

Yes I did think that but thought it might invalidate the warranty?

 

[macman]

It does affect the warranty. I think they reserve the right not to issue a refund/credit for a painted camera but will still repair a faulty unit.

 

[JB1970]

In the 6 years I've been installing Hikvision cameras I've only had two faulty. One was delivered faulty with the lens sitting askew to the sensor causing focus it to be out of focus, the other (an old DS-2CD2132I dome) was disconnecting regularly. They're very reliable, the odd firmware bug aside, so I'd have no concerns about painting one. You'd just want to be careful not to seal over the micro SD/reset cover plate - I'd probably split it down into its separate parts (trim ring, backplate, camera ball, SD cover on a turret) before masking and spraying.

I do wonder how hot a black camera could get while running in direct sunlight. The acceptable operating temperature is up to 60 degrees C. The UK rarely sees half that but black in direct sunlight.....

 

[macman]

Surely they wouldn't make black cameras if they were liable to melt/implode?

 

[JB1970]

Surely they wouldn't make black cameras if they were liable to melt/implode?

Lol no they wouldn’t. It was just an observation. I was thinking that if the outside temp was say 32 celcius and the camera is in full sunlight and absorbing the heat as it’s black, I was wondering how close it would be to it’s specified maximum of 60 celcius. I think the cameras are Matt anthracite grey as opposed to black.

 

[Phil]

Just an FYI, as it crossed my desk this morning:

Baseline white camera use below color​

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Hikvision white: near RAL 9003, glossiness 10 degrees.​

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Customized black camera(/B) use below color​

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Hikvision black: near RAL 9011, glossiness 6 degrees.​

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Customized grey camera(/G) use below color​

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Hikvision grey: near RAL 7022​

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Deep in view camera use below color:​

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Hikvision silver: near RAL 9023, glossiness 40 degrees.​

 

[Tricky]

Interesting point about camera temperature tolerance as i have just fitted three ColorVu cameras to my house which is Swedish style timber and painted very dark grey and is south facing and during the summer the walls get so hot you would burn your hand if you held it there for more than a couple of seconds so wondering if the cameras will tolerate this as presumably they are made for world wide distribution and should see very high temps in some parts of the world?

 

[Phil]

We have sold quite a lot of black & grey cameras, and as yet have not experienced any over-temperature issues

 

[Kyle]

For the most part, the camera will cover entry points of less than 10m so am thinking fixed 2.8mm lens, 8MP - are the G2's that much better than the G1's is my first question?

I've attached Hikvision's document that discusses G2 series, page 8 compares the G2 with the G1 models and the improvements made

 

[BenThomson]

Great advice so far. Is the general consensus to wait for the DS-2CD2346G2-IU in June?

 

[JB1970]

Great advice so far. Is the general consensus to wait for the DS-2CD2346G2-IU in June?

I'm basing that choice on the cameras specified low light capabilities and the AcuSense technology.

Low light. From memory (without referring to spec sheets) the 2 MP Darkfighter turrets I used to favour (DS-2CD2325FWD-I) had a minimum lux specified at 0.05. The 2346G2 is specified at 0.03 so producing twice the resolution at roughly half the light. The ultra series DS-2CD5A46G0 with it's 1/1.8 sensor is only marginally better at 0.025 (though otherwise it is far superior). While the manufacturers minimum illumination levels aren't a great deal of use on their own - they are useful for comparing different models of the same manufacturer. Although you'll have the benefit of some native digital zoom on the 8MP cameras, this will be of little use in low light/darkness due to noise and compression artefacts in the image. The cameras come set at 1/25 second shutter and 100 gain in order to maximise the light capturing capabilities of the camera. The playback may look good but you'll find when it matters and you need to get a good still image from the recorded footage that you have motion blur for anyone at walking pace

AcuSense. It is possible with a lot of tinkering to get some reasonable results for line crossing and intrusion detection with the standard cameras, but shadow, reflection etc will cause false alerts regardless. The AcuSense does seem to keep false alerts to a minimum allowing notifications your phone to be useful rather than an annoyance you end up ignoring.

When designing your system try to go for more cameras if budget allows. So many people will just say "I want one at the front, one at the side and one at the back" and end up with 3 or 4 wide angle views covering a large areas. It would be better to put in cameras specifically where you want to cover - close to the front door, garage door and then by all means an overview camera. Some people are hell bent on having the highest possible resolution, hence everyone raving about 8MP/4K camera models. You have to look at the area you are wanting to cover, how much detail you need, how much light you have. For home use most people are installing CCTV for security and the likelihood is that any attempt at break in, car theft, vandalism will take place in darkness so light is key.

 

[GLO]

Anyone picked up the DS-2CD2346G2-ISU/SL yet?

 

[JB1970]

Anyone picked up the DS-2CD2346G2-ISU/SL yet?

Yeah I've got it. Was going to get the model I mentioned above then saw that the ISU/SL was coming out so waited for it.