CCTV and the law

[bonza]

Hi people,

I wonder if you can help at all?

I installed a CCTV camera (on the side of my house) pointing at the street after my car got broken into and a few of the neighbors cars as well, they were OK with it, before I installed it I went and spoke to them about it and they totally understood why I was installing it.

I was concerned at first that I might be breaking the law, but after reading on the Gov.co.uk web site regarding CCTV then I think I ticked all the boxes.

It had been there for a few years and from time to time I had the police knocking at my door asking if they could view the footage from a certain time as there had been a crime committed down the road they were keen to see if I'd caught anything on the footage.

They never mentioned anything about the law and in fact they were happy that there was CCTV in the area as it helps to cut crime and as a deterrent.

So that's a background to the camera that's outside.

Now for the interesting bit, I live in a small block of flats where there are 2 residents upstairs (me and an old lady) and 2 people downstairs. (one is a lease holder who's a busy body) and the other person is never here.

Lived here for about 5 years or so, and from time to time I'd come home to find that plants that were potted and sat outside the front of my flat had been tampered with, or moved, also from time to time there was rubbish, crisp packets and paper etc. around my front door.

So after speaking with the old lady that lives on the landing I asked her permission if she would mind me installing a camera that covers the upstairs landing and the stairs, she was happy with it, she said that it makes her feel more comfortable in knowing that her door is covered (she mentioned that before I moved in she had suspicion that the "lease holder" was creeping around upstairs on a night time) and a while back she had to call the police as the main front door had been left open and some random chav was knocking on her door and asking for his brother, she called the police and they came and nicked him.

So I installed this camera outside my front door that covers the landing upstairs, her front door and mine, I'm kind of at the back of the block so you'd have to make it up the stairs to be able to access my door thus capturing "people" coming up the stairs.

Since installing this camera in November there has been no more rubbish or plants being moved. coincidence? I think not.....

This is now the exciting part, the "lease holder" that lives down stairs said "If i install a camera he's going to his local MP" and I said OK what ever, after checking numerous web sites as long as I am following the guide lines from the gov web site with the footage and how it's stored and erased I can't see where I am going wrong, after all the first part of the guideline says "An individual has the right to protect their property and this can be done by using a CCTV system where it is necessary, such as a security measure." A CCTV system to protect a domestic dwelling from acts of crime and anti-social behavior is now commonplace.

So I get a telephone call from the housing office (I am a council tenant) and he says "Hello, we have had an anonymous complaint that you have installed a CCTV camera to which I answer yes that's correct, and then he says "have you asked for permission?" and I said no, who and why do I need to ask for permission from? he says that with it being inside the block then I need to ask permission for it, to which I replied and said "what do you know regarding the law on CCTV?" to which he replied "I don't know any thing about the laws"?

I laughed and mentioned the CCTV camera that's been installed on the outside of the property and the police viewing the footage etc. to which he didn't really have any reply to that, i said if I'd been breaking the law then I'm sure the police would have mentioned that when viewing the footage.

So that was back in November, now this is the interesting part, I view the "captured" footage once in a while and just view the "motion detected" parts that it's captured and on Monday I see a guy that has been let in the block by the lease holder downstairs and he's started taking photo's of my camera and the landing, he then opens a window and pretends to check it locks, I have a feeling that he's from the housing and that he's been doing a random block inspection to which I am now waiting for a letter......

as far as I can find online on the guidance of installing and monitoring a CCTV system then I'm well within my rights to protect my property.

If you need to ask for permission for these to be installed then surly all manufacturers that make cameras would have a warning on the box "check local laws" etc.

Sorry for the long post but I just thought it best you get a clear picture of what is going on?

There''s even a post from the police that reads....

The police are also keen to encourage use of CCTV. Earlier this year Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe, head of London's Metropolitan Police, said more homeowners should install CCTV cameras outside their houses. He said homeowners and businesses could help the police to solve crimes

Thanks

 

[Phil]

You don't need permission, ICO, DPA, etc. for CCTV on a domestic home - the Data Protection Act does not apply.

 

[James Harden]

Hi Bonza, from what I gather from your post it seems that you are well within the law and hence I feel this shouldn't be a further problem.

 

[RBW]

You don't need permission, ICO, DPA, etc. for CCTV on a domestic home - the Data Protection Act does not apply.

I’m sure the Data Protection act was tweaked a couple of years ago in that it must be followed on a domestic system if a public area is in the field of view.

 

[Phil]

I used to stay right on top of DPA/ICO etc. but no longer am.
I do remember reading that there was a call for alignment with EU Law, affecting domestic CCTV.

In practice - it doesn't matter
There is no enforcement that will issue you fines etc.
The Police will be oh so glad if you are ever able to pass them CCTV evidence.
In all likelihood, they will not handle and process it correctly, but they will probably send a PCSO around to grab a USB stick from you!

 

[bonza]

thanks for the replies guys, here's a screen shot of the letter that I got...as far as I'm aware I'm not breaking the law any where? I was just at a block of flats within the area and they have installed CCTV in a communal area of the block of flats, so how can they local council install a CCTV system pointing at an entrance....yet I can't?

Guess it does say that if it's pointed at mine then no issues, so I could move it I guess.?

really, some "passer-by" had compensation paid to them???

 

[SimonLambert]

Hi Bonza,

Much as you may not want to hear this: the council are right, insofar as you'd be ok if the camera only viewed your property. But, it sounds like if you put your camera outside your door then it unavoidably views a (semi) public area. The CJEU case they refer to is known as Rynes, in the Czech Republic. Google it, as the judgement is online. That is why you would, at least, have to register your CCTV with the Information Commissioner's Office and do all that is required to comply with the Data Protection Act.

The DPA is one thing, and you may wish to fully comply (with warning signage, Subject Access Request processing paperwork, etc). But, Planning Permission is another. If your camera is lower than 2.5m above the ground (the ceiling may restrict you here) then it won't be straightforward as a Permitted Development (part 33 of the Town & Country Planning Act 1995). That means you'll likely have to apply for planning permission and, of course, with this history they may refuse you.

Sir Bernard Hogan-Howe did, indeed, promote domestic CCTV but he, of all people, would not advocate CCTV owners breaking the law. What he and you would like, and the laws the restrict it, are at odds and it is frustrating.

 

[bonza]

I thought I'd just give an update it's been a while.

A guy from the council come out and said "I have to ask you to take it down but I'm not coming back to check it"

Then my neighbour (the nightmare neighbour) came up one day and moved it, So I called the police, they came out had a word with him and now all he does is flick the bird at it, sometimes even waves.

Result.

 

[Mike C]

You almost certainly have another issue which is entirely unrelated to data protection and the law governing CCTV. If you are a leaseholder or renter you do not have any rights over the common parts of the building other than the right to use them to get to and from your flat and for the purposes listed in your lease or tenancy agreement. You certainly won't have any rights to install anything in the common parts without the landlord's (freeholder's) consent. Any other tenant will normally have the right to require the landlord to enforce the conditions of your tenancy. The same will apply to the exterior camera. Your rights as a tenant will usually only cover the intereior floor wall and ceiling surfaces of your flat and the right to use the common parts for the purposes of access.

 

[bonza]

Had a camera outside pointing at my car, the police loved it as it covered quite a lot of the street, they were here asking if I would check said date etc. as a crime had been committed earlier.

Back to the "common" parts, I could happily record on my phone any thing I see with my eyes, So if I chose to stand on the landing and record on my phone am I breaking my tenancy agreement? what about a "ring" doorbell, would that break any rules?

They tried telling me that it was under "EU" rules, anyway, we are not in the EU any more so they don't apply.


It's been up since Feb 2019, all good

 

[Mike C]

Like most things it's down to enforcement. I'm involved in the management of three blocks of flats and am a leaseholder in each of them. If a tenant in one of the blocks wanted to kick up a fuss relating to a breach by one of the other tenants of the conditions of his lease we'd be legally obliged to act. Just making you aware. In your case the council seems to be taking a sensible line.