DS-7608NI-K1 / 8P and 5xDS-2CD2T87G2-L - When all cameras are set to H265+, two cameras start to lose main stream on recording?

[dturcic83]

Hi,

I have a little problem with my setup:
5 x DS-2CD2T87G2-L (V5.7.3 build 220112) conected to DS-7608NI-K1 / 8P (V4.71.000 build 220224)
When all cameras are set to H265+, two cameras start to lose main stream on recording, only grey screen is recorded other three records normally.
When two problematic cameras are set to H265, and other three remain on H265+ everything records ok. But when I playback video from H265+ cameras sometimes I get frozen frames from car or people in video...
Video setting for main stream 3840x2160, bitrate variable, highest quality, 25fps, max. bitrate 8192Kbps, video encodin H265 (3 with plus on, 2 with plus off)
Video setting for substream on all cameras 640x480, vaiable, medium, 25fps, max. 1024Kbps, H264
WDR on all cameras is always on.
Recording on all cameras is motion triggered - works ok.
Accusense intrusion event is set directly on each camera thru virtual host - works ok, alerts are sent on Hikconnect normaly

My question is are these problems with H265+ corupted stream and frozen frames, normal, or it could be solved with new I-class NVR

Thanks

 

[Dan]

Hi @dturcic83

It is likely a bitrate/bandwidth issue, the K-series 8-channel NVR only supports a max. incoming bandwidth of 80Mbps and each of the 8MP AcuSense/ColorVu cameras can use up to 20-25Mbps each when set to max. settings. This means that if you exceed 3-4 cameras you are going to start seeing stream issues and that is why 2 of your cameras are displaying stream issues.

You can try reducing the camera frame rate to 15fps and reducing the bitrate to try and reduce the bandwidth usage, but if you want to maintain max. settings you are going to have to upgrade to am I-series 16-channel NVR like the DS-7616NI-I2/16P because the 16-channel models have an incoming bandwidth of 160Mbps.

 

[johnfitzy]

Hi,

Take everything I'm saying with a grain of salt... I'm really not sure and I'm just guessing here until someone more experienced replies...

I had similar problems with a similar setup... 7 x DS-2CD2387G2-LU on a DS-7616NI-I2/16P... even though the NVR had 160 Mbps incoming bandwidth it wasn't enough... I upgraded to DS-7732NI-I4/16P with 256 Mbps incoming bandwidth and now everything works great...

I think you need to upgrade your 80 Mbps incoming bandwidth to 160 Mbps (DS-7616NI-I2/16P, unless you plan on adding more 8MP cameras then even that may not be enough!)

I use mainstream video settings similar to yours... 3840x2160 resolution, bitrate variable, highest quality, 24 Fps, I-frame interval 24 Fps, H265, smoothing 1 (clearest)... the cameras average around 16Mbps but spike well over 20 Mbps each second when the I-frame hits...

If you use H265+ you can't set the I-frame interval, but the I-frame still comes along every 5 seconds or so... if you can't allocate 16,384 Kbps max bitrate to each camera things just don't seem to work... Keep in mind I had 7 cameras set to 16,384 Kbps and the 160 Mbps incoming bandwidth didn't seem to work... there needs to be some leftover overhead bandwidth.

Before I upgraded the NVR I tried lowering the frame rate as low as 8 Fps but it just didn't seem to help because there will still be a spike at each I-frame.

The only thing that did seem to help was lowering video quality from highest to medium (or even low)... that seems to take the bitstream (including the spike) down... but who wants that? I suppose we could lower the resolution to get by but that wouldn't make sense

 

[dturcic83]

Thanks for reply, so this max bitrate settings 8192Kbps is not really maximum.
But why main stream problem happens on two cameras with H265+ but doesn't happen when on H265?
Doesn't H265 use more bandwidth than H265+?
What about frozen cars and people in video from H265+ camera? For example car is driving and in the middle of the road, video keeps still picture of car and keeps recording the car down the road, like a frozen frame of car. This frozen car disperse after about 2sec, and it happens randomly.
Also I forgot to mention problems are more frequent during daylight.
This is all new equipment so my distributor is willing to exchange my K series for I series but with 8 ch, of course I need to pay the difference. Will I have any benefit from I-series or the problem will still be the same?

 

[Dan]

The H.265/H.265+ part was the only part that didn't make sense to me, as you say the bitrate/bandwidth usage should increase if you go from H.265+ to H.265 so I wouldn't expect the streams to improve if it was a bandwidth issue. Everything else you have said though points to a bandwidth issue, I can only think that as H.265+ is a smart CODEC the NVR is running into some kind of issue when trying to uncompress the H.265+ smart compression of all 5 streams at the same time.

As I and @johnfitzy have said above you are likely going to be best off upgrading to a larger I-series model, either 16 or 32 channel.

 

[dturcic83]

Thanks, when I upgrade to I-series do I first need to reset all my cameras before unplugging from K-series or just plug them in new NVR and all settings are kept?
Also do I need to upgrade I-series firmware before connecting cameras or after?
With firmware update do I need to upgrade one version at time or just automatically update to latest firmware?

Sorry for so many questions, I'm noob in all this, and this forum is a great knowledge base with more better users.

 

[Dan]

You can reset all the cameras if you wish, but you will be starting from scratch if you do that.

If you set up the new NVR with the same password/camera activation password as you did with the old NVR then you should be able to just move the cameras from the PoE ports on the old NVR to the ports on the new NVR and as the camera and NVR passwords match the cameras should just automatically connect.

If you can updating the NVR firmware before adding the cameras is probably best, but there shouldn't be any issue doing it after adding the cameras. If the NVR firmware is only a few versions old (3-4 versions) then you should be fine to go straight to the latest firmware, but if it is using a much older firmware (with a build number starting 19xxxx/20xxxx which means they are firmware from 2019/2020) then you may need to step up through several firmwares.

If you think it is running an old firmware let us know the version and we can recommend which versions to update through.

 

[dturcic83]

Ok, many thanks. When I get new I-series will send my update if problems are solved.

 

[johnfitzy]

Hi,

again, I'm replying but I would definitely wait to hear from Dan...

Get the 7616 not the 7608!!!

the cameras keep their settings so you don't need to reset the cameras just plug them into the new NVR but you will need to check some settings in the NVR... things like the mainstream event settings are not stored on the camera so you will need to set them on the new NVR

might as well update the firmware on the NVR before you plug the cameras in... BUT... again, I'm not sure but the latest versions of the i-series firmware V4.60.000 and V4.60.005 seem to cause problems for me and some others here... I'm using V4.51.025 build 210927 and everything is good...

probably better to go though each firmware version up to V4.51.025... I tried the 4.60 versions more than once and when you downgrade to 4.51 the NVR seems to default all its settings (no big deal) but worse I then had problems getting "online" status for hik-connect platform access... again, not sure but I think you need to "Unbind" from Hik-Connect on the old NVR before you replace it... anyway I had to contact Hikvision twice to have it corrected before I could go online... good news here is that support@hikvision.com was very responsive and helpful

 

[johnfitzy]

can't seem to reply as fast as you guys

 

[dturcic83]

Hi,

again, I'm replying but I would definitely wait to hear from Dan...

Get the 7616 not the 7608!!!

the cameras keep their settings so you don't need to reset the cameras just plug them into the new NVR but you will need to check some settings in the NVR... things like the mainstream event settings are not stored on the camera so you will need to set them on the new NVR

might as well update the firmware on the NVR before you plug the cameras in... BUT... again, I'm not sure but the latest versions of the i-series firmware V4.60.000 and V4.60.005 seem to cause problems for me and some others here... I'm using V4.51.025 build 210927 and everything is good...

probably better to go though each firmware version up to V4.51.025... I tried the 4.60 versions more than once and when you downgrade to 4.51 the NVR seems to default all its settings (no big deal) but worse I then had problems getting "online" status for hik-connect platform access... again, not sure but I think you need to "Unbind" from Hik-Connect on the old NVR before you replace it... anyway I had to contact Hikvision twice to have it corrected before I could go online... good news here is that support@hikvision.com was very responsive and helpful

Thanks so too unbind current NVR, I just delete it from Hikconnect on my iphone and ipad, or do I need to do something more.

 

[johnfitzy]

I think either way is the same, but I would use the "Unbind" button on the NVR instead (after the problems I had)... on the NVR its SYSTEM/Network/Advanced/Platform Access... when you do that you will see it has been deleted from the phone app immediately. It only gave me trouble when I was downgrading the firmware.

 

[dturcic83]

Well my supplier only have DS-7616NI-I2 in stock, so he can exchange my K series with nonPoE version, but I'll get 8ch PoE switch.
Is this the right way to connect:
5 cameras --> 5 ports on PoE switch
1 x uplink port on switch --> NVR
1 x uplink port on switch --> internet router
Are there any common problems with this setup (accusense, on line alerts, hikconect) ?
I did read somewhere on this forum that home router could have problems handling all the traffic from cameras, I think with this setup all camera traffic should be handled by NVR or am I wrong

PoE switch spec:
8-port PoE switch + 2 x uplink port. 8 x 10/100 Base-T, PoE power supp up to 30W/port, TTL up to 120W, 2 x 10/100/1000 Base-T uplink, PoE protocol: IEEE802.3af, IEEE802.3at, power supply 53VDC.

 

[johnfitzy]

Hi @dturcic83

My NVR is noisy... wish now I had the non-PoE version and a "fan-less" PoE switch instead.

I've never had an NVR without PoE ports so I'm guessing but I think that is the best way to connect things... accusense, hik-connect, etc. should work the same as they would with a PoE NVR and the switch should sent the camera traffic to the NVR and not the router.

You'll need to research more or wait for someone who knows for sure to reply.

 

[Dan]

Hi @dturcic83

Yes, the switch setup you describe should be fine, for a 5 camera system, there shouldn't be any issues with network traffic as all the camera streams are managed by the NVR.

 

[dturcic83]

Well with DS-7616NI-I2 (V4.51.025 build 210927) and 8port PoE switch, all five cams are working perfectly.
H265+ is still problematic so this is my current stable set for all cams (picture).
I have 2x2TB WD purple, and all recording is triggered by basic motion.
Smart events on all cams are working fine, hikconnect is sometimes lagging on event playback, but on NVR records are good.
Notifications for intruder on hikconnect are almost instant and that is very good.
I have scheduled (monthly) different image setting on cams for day/night - working good.

So far no problems.

Thanks for help boys

 

[johnfitzy]

Howdy @dturcic83

Glad to hear you got the NVR swapped!

Since you now have 160 Mbps incoming bandwidth, why not set the cameras to 16384 Kbps max bitrate?

 

[dturcic83]

Howdy @dturcic83

Glad to hear you got the NVR swapped!

Since you now have 160 Mbps incoming bandwidth, why not set the cameras to 16384 Kbps max bitrate?

well I did try but then hikconnect is struggling with live view and event playback, I only have 30Mb internet upload.
Between 16384Kbps and 10240Kbps my eye doesn't see any difference

 

[johnfitzy]

well I did try but then hikconnect is struggling with live view and event playback, I only have 30Mb internet upload.
Between 16384Kbps and 10240Kbps my eye doesn't see any difference

That makes sense...

I do have to use the sub-streams when viewing on Hik-connect and I honestly can't see a difference in the recordings either if I lower the bitrate, but I'll keep them high anyway since I'm not worried about disk space/retention period or high-def live view/playback on Hik-connect.