Help/advice with config/choice of cameras [PICS included]

[karansaraf]

I'm going to be getting a three camera system for the front and back of my house. After doing some research, I've settled on Hikvision or Dahua, as they seem to be the most highly regarded, have a lot of variety, good NVRs and good support. I would use POE and cameras/NVR by the same manufacturer wired directly to my router (as opposed to powerline adapters). Video stored on motion capture only. Accessing live feed and stored video via my iPhone/iPad (at least live, if stored video not possible to review on iOS) in addition to using the proprietary software on my computer to access surveillance.

The problem is, it's quite a minefield for a newcomer to figure out what might be the best for you without any background knowledge, and comparing cameras with one another can sometimes be impossible if you don't know what to look for.

I'd be grateful for advice regarding the setup/configuration of where I should put my cameras (see pics) and which models/types of cameras you would recommend. I think Id rather go with Turret style cameras (I understand these to be like domes but with an IR emitter separate to the lens) rather than traditional domes or bullets - though feel free to recommend the latter if you feel more appropriate or if I've got some misconceptions about the quality of bullets for example. Turrets/Domes more tamper proof than bullets, right?

Two cameras for the front of my house

This is the front of my house (everything to the left of the orange line). Also annotated are three potential camera placement spots. I would want to choose two of these three for cameras.

1 (green): Will most likely need to have one here. Above doorway so can picture faces of people walking up to the door/trying to break in. Would want this camera to be able to perform well in low light/in the rain/wet and be decent at making out faces so decent resolution ie. at least 3 or 4MP turret etc. Only downside to this position is that it will not capture the whole driveway given that the windows (below balcony) stick out and so some of the view will be obscured (see green lines). So some of the left part of the driveway will be missing in the surveillance from this camera, hence the need for a second camera.

2 (red): advantages are that it would capture the whole driveway, but downside is it won't necessarily see the faces of people trying to break in through the front door, which is why if chosen, would need to be in addition to 1.

3 (blue): advantages - (A) capture the faces of anyone climbing the balcony to break in (next door have been broken into twice through the balcony - so I would be keen to have this option if I can) and (B) captures the whole driveway, but disadvantages - (A) quite high up so probably not good resolution for capturing faces of people on the driveway? and (B) doesn't picture those walking up to the door at close distance


I'm leaning towards 1 and 3. What combination would you guys recommend? Which cameras do you feel would be well suited to the above requirements? ie. face recognition at the doorway and up at the balcony, full (or mostly full) coverage of the driveway, good low light (night time) performance?


One camera for the back of the house

Slightly easier decision I think. One camera to cover the back yard out of these potential placement spots.

1 (green): would be the ideal spot - but only potential problem is that there's not much space between the door frame and the top of the wall, so maybe the camera won't fit - I think it probably will.

2 (red): could go in either of the two positions - what do you guys think would be better?

The requirements for this camera are probably the same as for the front - good low light (night) performance, face recognition for anyone trying to break in through the back door. So I guess I would choose the same for this camera as for the green 1 camera at the front?


Any advice guys? I would really appreciate any help you could give with regards to which cameras would do the job well. Budget is probably ideally £150 or $200-ish per camera. If there's truly something great that slightly out of this budget I'll certainly consider it if it's going to really be perfect.

With regards to the NVR - I can't see needing more than an 8-port NVR, even with future expansion in mind, though I don't think I would necessarily want to add more cameras if these three are decent and get the job done. I was thinking about having some indoor cameras facing the entrances (front door, back door, balcony) in addition to ourdoor ones, but I think I'd rather just spend more on fewer good quality outdoor cameras - does that make sense?

Thanks so much for your help.

 

[Phil]

Hi, thanks for sharing, here are my suggestions:

The front door camera
It's a little counter-intuitive, but what you need at the front door is a wide-angle camera (typically 2.8mm). People are expected to be very close to the camera, so can easily be out either side of a narrower view. Also, it can be useful to record audio at the front door. Therefore, I'd suggest either a HikVision 2542-IW/S or a Milesight mini VR dome.

The bay window camera
Again, you are very close to the scene of interest. I'd suggest a 2.8mm HikVision turret camera (2385 4K/8MP if budgets permit, otherwise 3MP and 5MP variants are available).
If you are concerned about vandalism, then I would switch to a VR dome - such as the 2185 from HikVision, or the Pro dome from Milesight (which has a built-in microphone).

The balcony camera
It would seem unlikely that you'll need this i.e that if you have the lower cameras then it's unlikely intruders will get past those onto the balcony - remember, it's all about degrees of deterrent (persuade them to go elsewhere).
Also, you'll be surprised how much of the view of the cars will be blocked by the balcony from this camera position.
I'd suggest a 4mm camera here. Again, a turret, unless you are concerned about vandalism (as above).

The back garden
I'd place a 2.8mm turret in the corner of the two walls.
Use a wall-mount arm, this will enable you to mount the camera 'pendant style' under the arm and gain maximum adjustment and coverage - meaning that you should be able to fix it in that corner, look out from the corner and set coverage of the patio doors as well as the garden, people coming via the side entrance etc.

A 7604 NVR will be fine for up to a maximum ever of four cameras.

A 7608 if you want up to 8.
The 7608-I is the best model, a bit more bandwidth capability AND a new (V4) user interface.
The 7608-K will work just fine, is a little cheaper, but it's not clear yet whether HikVision will provide this model with the newest user interface.

One other thing that caught my eye in your spec - I wouldn't recommend relying upon Video Motion Detection (VMD) - you will tear your hair out trying to perfect it! We always recommend that you record at the highest resolution available from your cameras, that's what you paid for. Probably 10fps. Record all the time. A 4TB HDD will probably suit your needs / setup well and give some capacity if you do add cameras.

Hope that helps ...

 

[karansaraf]

Thanks so much for your suggestions, that's a really good starting point for me to look at!

A few questions:

- With regards to your 2.8mm focal length suggestions for the front - I understand what you're saying about making sure you capture people close to the camera with a wider FOV. My question is - if someone tries to break into the car for example, which is maybe 3-4 metres away, is the camera going to reliably be able to detect/recognise faces given how wide the FOV is? And, with the very wide angle, is there a lot of distortion at 2.8mm that you would avoid with maybe a 4mm or is it generally OK? I don't have CCTV experience but I know from being an amateur photographer that the wide angle (16mm) lenses I use for landscape photography don't work too well for portraits due to the barrel and other distortion they cause.

- You mentioned the microphone being included with the Pro dome from Milesight. Does that mean it isn't included in the other Hik cameras?

- I assume turrets are generally regarded as better than domes for low light capture given they have a separate IR emitter?

- In terms of the 8mp vs 5mp cameras - I assume the actual sensor is the same/similar size in those Hiks. Do the extra pixels in that case really translate to better resolution/clarity in pictures? If so, I'm happy to pay more for the 8MP in order to try to future proof my setup. Only worry is that file size with 8MP is going to be really high and I don't really want to buy more than 4TB HD, so with 3 cameras, I probably wouldn't be able to record too long - so maybe 5MP would be better for this? I would ideally like to be able to record at least 3 weeks of footage at a time.

- The 7608-I NVR you recommended only goes up to 6MP recording? Is there any point getting 8MP cameras in that case?

 

[Phil]

- With regards to your 2.8mm focal length suggestions for the front - I understand what you're saying about making sure you capture people close to the camera with a wider FOV. My question is - if someone tries to break into the car for example, which is maybe 3-4 metres away, is the camera going to reliably be able to detect/recognise faces given how wide the FOV is? And, with the very wide angle, is there a lot of distortion at 2.8mm that you would avoid with maybe a 4mm or is it generally OK? I don't have CCTV experience but I know from being an amateur photographer that the wide angle (16mm) lenses I use for landscape photography don't work too well for portraits due to the barrel and other distortion they cause.

There isn't a lot of distortion, and people would not be too far from the camera, so you should be OK to identify faces.

However, you are of course correct that if you had a narrower field of view lens you would be able to see more detail.
Perhaps try these tips to assess the coverage you'll get and see whether you think a 4mm will be wide enough for your application / scene:
https://forum.use-ip.co.uk/threads/...s-for-the-required-viewing-angle.77/#post-184

- You mentioned the microphone being included with the Pro dome from Milesight. Does that mean it isn't included in the other Hik cameras?

Unfortunately, the Turret cameras are not available with a built-in microphone.

- I assume turrets are generally regarded as better than domes for low light capture given they have a separate IR emitter?

Yes

- In terms of the 8mp vs 5mp cameras - I assume the actual sensor is the same/similar size in those Hiks. Do the extra pixels in that case really translate to better resolution/clarity in pictures? If so, I'm happy to pay more for the 8MP in order to try to future proof my setup.

The 8MP turret is very good, watch this on a big screen 4K TV:

It is currently our highest scoring camera at our IP camera review site:
Hikvision DS-2CD2385FWD-I 8MP Turret Camera - IP Camera Reviews

 

[karansaraf]

Is there a way to add sound to these feeds with an external small microphone? Or do you need to get a camera that has one built in?

The best NVR you mentioned (7608-I) only supports up to 6MP resolution. Is there a better alternative that will support up to 8MP if I'm going to be buying those turrets?

 

[Phil]

Is there a way to add sound to these feeds with an external small microphone? Or do you need to get a camera that has one built in?

With the HikVision cameras, if it has an 'S' in the camera's product code suffix, then it will accept an external microphone (search this forum for 'micrrophone(s)' for more information on how this is achieved. NB - Going the built-in route is a lot simpler.

The best NVR you mentioned (7608-I) only supports up to 6MP resolution. Is there a better alternative that will support up to 8MP if I'm going to be buying those turrets?

The 7608-I NVR does accept 4K / 8MP cameras.
(Maybe there is some old literature / links still showing? The NVR model has been around a long time, since before 4K cameras were commonly available. Likewise, it pre-dates their h.265+ CODEC, but also works with that).

 

[karansaraf]

With the HikVision cameras, if it has an 'S' in the camera's product code suffix, then it will accept an external microphone (search this forum for 'micrrophone(s)' for more information on how this is achieved. NB - Going the built-in route is a lot simpler.


The 7608-I NVR does accept 4K / 8MP cameras.
(Maybe there is some old literature / links still showing? The NVR model has been around a long time, since before 4K cameras were commonly available. Likewise, it pre-dates their h.265+ CODEC, but also works with that).

Hi Phil - I have made some decisions, though I do have another question before I can finalise my setup.

I've decided to buy from you guys -

3x Hikvision DS-2CD2385FWD-I 8MP Turret Camera
1x Hikvision DS-7608NI-I2-8P 8 Channel NVR

(Both of these you recommended earlier)


I've now also decided that I'd like some extra cameras indoors. One to cover the front entrance, one for the back and one for the balcony entrance (all from the inside).

I would require them to have the following features:
- at least 4MP
- good night vision
- good detail in recognising faces
- one of them will be in a narrow corridor, so possibly not too wide angle?

Could you please recommend which model(s) you feel would be suitable? I'll then be able to finally take the plunge!

 

[Phil]

Hi, Sorry, I missed your response.

For indoors we tend to recommend either the cube cameras or the flat dome cameras:
Search results for: '2455' ¦ use-IP Ltd (5MP, only available with wide view 2.8mm lens)
Hikvision DS-2CD2555FWD-IS 5MP Mini Dome Network Camera (5MP, only 2.8mm)
Hikvision DS-2CD2535FWD-IS 3MP Mini Dome Network Camera (3MP, 2.8 or 4mm)


Or, you can also consider the standard mini-dome:
Hikvision DS-2CD2155FWD-IS 5MP Dome Network Camera (5MP, 2.8 or 4mm)
All the above have built-in microphones.
There is a lower cost variant of each dome without a microphone if you prefer.

4mm is the narrower angle.

 

[karansaraf]

Hi, Sorry, I missed your response.

For indoors we tend to recommend either the cube cameras or the flat dome cameras:
Search results for: '2455' ¦ use-IP Ltd (5MP, only available with wide view 2.8mm lens)
Hikvision DS-2CD2555FWD-IS 5MP Mini Dome Network Camera (5MP, only 2.8mm)
Hikvision DS-2CD2535FWD-IS 3MP Mini Dome Network Camera (3MP, 2.8 or 4mm)


Or, you can also consider the standard mini-dome:
Hikvision DS-2CD2155FWD-IS 5MP Dome Network Camera (5MP, 2.8 or 4mm)
All the above have built-in microphones.
There is a lower cost variant of each dome without a microphone if you prefer.

4mm is the narrower angle.

Thanks Phil.

I also wanted to ask about bracket/housings that you guys sell.

I want my outdoor turret cams to attach to the wall and for the POE cable to go directly out of the back of the camera into the wall and into my house. I don't think I can achieve this without buying a bracket or housing, as the camera has its own built in 2 in 1 cable for POE/12V connections. I want to keep that part of the cable in a housing and just have the ethernet going back through a hole in the wall, without any visible cabling outside the main structure of the camera.

Am I right in saying that I can't do this without a housing, and if so, which housing would you recommend? I assume all housings are standardised and so would fit all turrets/domes?

 

[Phil]

Typically you will need a junction box or mounting arm to accommodate your connection to the pigtail lead that most Hikvision cameras use.

The mounting options and brackets available for each Hikvision camera are shown in the Frequently Bought Together section on the camera's product page in our webshop.

 

[karansaraf]

Thanks Phil.

Have bought the 8 channel NVR from you guys, just got the cameras and junction boxes to get next.

Think I've made the decision to go for 3 cameras instead of 6 (indoor ones are unnecessary).

I was therefore looking at the 4 channel K series NVR you sell instead. It seems as if both ingoing and outgoing bandwidth are going to be enough for me (with three 2385 turrets). And you stock the (B) series NVR now which means it can handle h265+ and has the new V4 firmware update, and also 4K streams via HDMI (I think).

So is there any reason why this may not be as good as the 8 channel that I've not thought about (other than future plans for expansion of cameras)?

Typically you will need a junction box or mounting arm to accommodate your connection to the pigtail lead that most Hikvision cameras use.

The mounting options and brackets available for each Hikvision camera are shown in the Frequently Bought Together section on the camera's product page in our webshop.

And hopefully final question -

I have bought a 1280-M junction box just to see how it looks/how big it is, as I was worried that directly mounting to the wall will not be waterproof down the back of the turret base. It's pretty massive, and it got me wondering whether the turrets I'm buying should be mounted on a vertical wall with the junction box, or perhaps I should use a wall mount bracket instead, which will allow for horizontal mounting of the cameras. Does vertical mounting affect the orientation of the video recording or can that be sorted by just changing the position of the camera?

 

[Phil]

I'm not sure that any of the -K NVRs have a V4 firmware version available.

The latest firmware version showing at the Hikvision European download portal for the 7604-K1 (B) is V3.4.99:
DOWNLOAD PORTAL

You can resolve any video orientation issues with the flip/rotate/mirror settings within the camera configuration.
The wall-mount arms do tend to provide the best adjustability of the camera.
i.e. mounting the camera under the arm bracket enables you to rotate it on the bracket, especially useful if you want to monitor say patio doors in the same wall that the camera is fixed to.

 

[karansaraf]

I'm not sure that any of the -K NVRs have a V4 firmware version available.

The latest firmware version showing at the Hikvision European download portal for the 7604-K1 (B) is V3.4.99:
DOWNLOAD PORTAL

You can resolve any video orientation issues with the flip/rotate/mirror settings within the camera configuration.
The wall-mount arms do tend to provide the best adjustability of the camera.
i.e. mounting the camera under the arm bracket enables you to rotate it on the bracket, especially useful if you want to monitor say patio doors in the same wall that the camera is fixed to.

Ah yes, I got confused, it was h265+ that the K series (B) models gained, not V4 upgrade.

Looking at posts on this forum and elsewhere, it seems like it's not that big of a deal for me, as I won't be using a directly connected monitor to access the NVR/streams (rather I will be using my Mac browser/IVMS and iOS app (haven't figured out which app I will use yet) to access the streams). It seems as if the major changes to the GUI/functionality are only apparent in a directly connected monitor setup?

In which case, assuming the above is correct, I think perhaps the 4 channel K series might be better suited for my setup as I think the 8 channel is probably too much for only 3 cameras.

 

[Phil]

There are a couple of forum posts that may help you with your choice:
Which is the Best 4-Channel Hikvision NVR?
HikVision NVRs - should I purchase a -I or a -K suffix NVR?

We have loads of happy customers using the 7604.